Posts by Island Man

11

interesting question

by jayjay78 in

firstly i'm a df'd witness.. i was in the org all my life.. vividly remember out witnessing as a kid in the 80s with my mum and having apostates jumping houses before we could get to them ..all the way up the street.. remember it because the guy looked like tom baker from dr who - frizzy hair and long colourful scarf.. i think the people at the doors were made more curious by them actually, so when we knocked ,they were inclined to have a listen.. anyway i'm out and cant see myself ever going back,because my family has fully shunned me..and even if i was to go back and be a member..i don't think i could forgive them...totally scarred me.. anyway my question is :.

if you were head of this religion and you wanted to keep it clean and pure etc..how would you deal with people who delib broke the rules?.

no shunning of course..but whats the alternative?

Island Man

The best way to keep the religion clean would be to simply terminate the membership of unrepentant sinners, revoking their status as a JW so that they are now viewed as any other never-JW member of the public. JWs don't shun never-JWs. They just see them as bad association and are supposed to avoid having close friendships with them. There is even a little more leeway given if the never-JW is a flesh and blood relative.

Shunning is a bad way to keep the religion clean. Why? When members know the punishment for their secret sin is shunning, they just keep their sin secret and continue in it. So shunning deters many sinners from going to the elders with the result that there is much sin going on in secret within the congregations worldwide.

The act of shunning is not needed to keep the congregation clean from the defilement of unrepentant sinners. All that is required is that the person's membership in the religion be terminated. One of the greatest contradictions in JWs claim that shunning is needed to keep the congregation clean, is the fact that they allow never-JWs who are known practicing fornicators to participate in their meetings by commenting. So a failure to shun an expelled member tarnishes the congregation, but Jehovah is A-OK with a practicing fornicator participating in congregation meetings by commenting, just because he was never a JW? Really?!! Explain that logic to me. If they were genuinely concerned with keeping the congregation clean they would not be allowing non-JWs to comment at the meetings - especially non-JWs who they know are living immoral life-styles according to their teachings.

The real reason for shunning is control - controlling the members with fear and controlling (preventing) the flow of information from ex-members to current members. Shunning also serves to keep serious sins hidden.

44

The 1914 doctrine: How long it will last?

by opusdei1972 in

one hundred years have passed and the society still supports this lie, which of course, is the basis of their other lies, like that of the unfaithful and not discreet slave appointed in 1919. however, i wonder, what will happen after 50 years, when the overlapped generation will pass?.

and if you want, what will happen with this religion in 2100?, could it survive with the same lie??

?.

Island Man

Here's how I think it's going to go down:

They will keep the same 7 gentile times invisible presence teaching only changing the year from 1914 to 1934. They'll dump the erroneous 607 date and accept the 587 date for the destruction of Jerusalem. They'll move forward by 20 years, all their other date teachings that are anchored in some way to 1914. The appointment of the FDS will move from 1919 to 1939 - the year that WWII started. They might even say that Watchtower teaching their members not to fight in WWII and their early exposing of Nazi oppression of the Jews, were two of the primary reasons their leadership was chosen and appointed as FDS.

This will be a plus for them in many ways. First it will mean that they get a cleaner FDS that was teaching less error at the later time of appointment in 1939. For example, I think they rejected pyramidology by then. Secondly there's a neat chronological window of time between Jesus' appointment with Satan being cast down to the Earth, and the subsequent woe to the Earth manifested in part by the outbreak of WWII which started just 5 years later (a very short time in the spirit realm where a thousand years is like one day) and which was much bigger in scope than WWI. The current 1914 teaching has Satan anachronistically stirring up WWI in August before he's even cast out of heaven by Jesus on or after October. And of course, finally there's the extra 20 years of time that it buys them.

They'll go this route first to stretch the overlapping generation out further when it's nearing it's end. Then about 20 years later when the 1934 overlapping generation is becoming untenable, they'll drop the 7 gentile times 2520 count altogether and adopt a more mainstream eschatology, saying that presence and coming are synonymous after all and no one knows when christ's presence will be and that Jesus' words about "this generation" had only one fulfillment - the 70 CE destruction of Jerusalem.

8

Iconic 9/11 photo taken by bethelite

by pbrow in

jw
friends

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-shot-iconic-9-11-photo-doomed-fire-truck-article-1.2786008.

l118 crossing brooklyn bridge.

mid-article says he was a volly at jdub "book-making factory" .

Island Man

The article captions a photo of him thus:

Aaron McLamb struggled with survivor’s guilt and couldn’t talk about what happened that day for 10 years.

I wonder if the inadequate help that Bethel offered traumatized people early on; and the way JWs were ecstatically hoping this tragedy was a springboard to the end, had anything to do with his survivors guilt, considering that he wasn't in any of the towers at the time. (Survivor's guilt usually affects those who were in the same immediate danger of death as those that died. He clearly wasn't)

Maybe it's not really survivor's guilt. Maybe he's just calling it that to avoid having to speak badly about how the JW organization crushed his dream to become a career firefighter, how Watchtower policies and practices prevented him from doing more to help others on that day. Maybe he doesn't want to make waves with JW family still in.

23

Are JWs the most gossiping people on earth?

by Londo111 in

we all gossip.

it is only human.

watchtower actually tries to instruct adherents not to gossip and it can land a jw in front of a judicial committee—some do try to follow this admonition.

Island Man

A phenomenon I have noticed with JWs in my area is that they see nothing wrong with gossiping negatively about worldly people. They consider it a sin to gossip about fellow Witnesses. But JW elders openly gossip with other JWs about their non-JW bosses, their non-JW neighbors and others - especially when it comes to practices that JWs consider bad, like celebrating christmas, halloween, etc. They are total hypocrites.

30

I need to know more on why its a problem for me dating a JW girl.

by seekinghelpp in

ok not to throw no shade or no disrespect to the jw religion.

which i truly do respect because my girlfriend is part of but i just don't understand, i have researched so much about it.

so much about how its discouraged for her to be with me just cause of different religion.

Island Man

The problem is, you'll be dating 7 old men in New York, by proxy. Faithful JW women are too busy with "theocratic activities" and too concerned about the bad association that will come from their non-JW husbands, to have a truly meaningful and truly intimate relationship with their non-JW husbands.

JWs is not a religion. JWs is a state of mind. JWs is a culture. JWs is a cult. Want to know the difference between a religion and a cult? A religion is something that you have. A cult is something that has you! Watchtower has the JWs - like puppets on a string. If you want to marry a puppet, go right ahead. Don't say we didn't warn you.

28

Taking the Bible Lessons And Going To a KH For First Time

by Cold Steel in

i've taken the bible lessons but have never attended a kingdom hall.

i was curious as to what point they begin to tighten the screws of control?

let's say you're a baptist.

Island Man

Mormon cult v JW cult
No difference.

No, no, no! The Mormon cult is definitely more stupid because there is a lot more evidence disproving more of it's ridiculous claims given how recent it's holy book is and the falsifiable nature of its claims. You have to be more gullible to join the Mormons as an adult, than to join the JWs.

The JWs on the other hand, are using the Bible which is much older and less falsifiable than the book of Mormon. So even though the claims are also stupid they are also less falsifiable so it's a tad bit less silly to fall for the JWs. On the other hand, the JWs are more dangerous than the Mormons.

So Mormons are dumber than the JWs but a bit less dangerous/harmful. The JWs are a tad bit less dumb, but more dangerous/harmful.

23

Are JWs the most gossiping people on earth?

by Londo111 in

we all gossip.

it is only human.

watchtower actually tries to instruct adherents not to gossip and it can land a jw in front of a judicial committee—some do try to follow this admonition.

Island Man

I don't know if they're the most gossiping people on earth. But the very judgmental nature of the religion with the many man-made rules forbidding or discouraging innocuous things like men having beards and women wearing pants to the meeting creates a large content-set of faults to see in others and gossip about.

Also the level of secrecy surrounding the reasons for someone being announced as no longer being one of Jehovah's Witnesses, naturally arouses curiosity and speculation and, inevitably, gossiping.

So the JW culture is one that is very conducive to gossip. But I don't know if they're the most gossiping.

38

The Biggest Mistake The GB Have Made In The Last 10 Years

by pale.emperor in

i think the single biggest mistake the governing body have made in the last 10 years has to be creating jw broadcasting and putting their gb members on there... on a weekly basis too.. when i was a kid, i had no idea who the governing body were, what their names were or what they looked like.

there was one or two long term pioneers that knew the names of two of them but that was about it.. when i was about 10yo i imagined they looked something like this:.

ahh.... those learned men with a lifetime of bible knowledge just oozing out of their very hearts.

Island Man

I think the biggest mistake has been their recent emphasis on the use of smart-phones, and tablets and the promotion of jw.bog. This means that JWs are now being unwittingly encouraged to have greater exposure to online information which means that the new generation of JWs is now at much greater risk of being exposed to TTATT.

17

If Watchtower can use a non-sequitur to say that Jesus now knows the day and the hour, despite Matthew 24:36 ....

by Island Man in

... where's the good sense preventing them from again making a date prediction for the end and using a non-sequitur to justify their claim in the face of matthew 24:36?

"... but christ has been empowered in heaven to wage war against satan's world.

(rev 19:11-16) thus, it is reasonable to conclude that jesus now knows when armageddon will occur...." - watchtower july 2016, page 14, par.

Island Man

"Jan do you think Christ will only know after the event has started?"

The way I picture it, is that he's in heaven and he's just waiting for his Father to give him the nod for him to immediately start the battle. Until he gets the nod he has no idea when it will be.

17

If Watchtower can use a non-sequitur to say that Jesus now knows the day and the hour, despite Matthew 24:36 ....

by Island Man in

... where's the good sense preventing them from again making a date prediction for the end and using a non-sequitur to justify their claim in the face of matthew 24:36?

"... but christ has been empowered in heaven to wage war against satan's world.

(rev 19:11-16) thus, it is reasonable to conclude that jesus now knows when armageddon will occur...." - watchtower july 2016, page 14, par.

Island Man

... Where's the good sense preventing them from again making a date prediction for the end and using a non-sequitur to justify their claim in the face of Matthew 24:36?

"... But Christ has been empowered in heaven to wage war against Satan's world. (Rev 19:11-16) Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus now knows when Armageddon will occur...." - Watchtower July 2016, page 14, par. 4.

Is the reasoning valid or is it a glaring non-sequitur? Does Christ being empowered to wage war in the future at Armageddon necessitate him now knowing the day and the hour of the end? If I appoint a lawyer to administer my estate upon my death, does that necessitate the lawyer knowing the day and the hour of my death, in advance?

If Watchtower can use such strange reasoning to say Jesus now knows the day and the hour, where's the good sense to stop them using similar strange reasoning in the future to set another date for the end and say that they now know because [insert crazy, non-sequitur reasoning here]?